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Mormons Respond to Atheism | 3 Mormons

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Aug 02, 2017

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Mormons Respond to Atheism | 3 Mormons
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  • We can read some of the Book of Mormon.
  • You're like my gospel doctrine
  • teacher that asks questions and then
  • someone gives a profound thing
  • and they say thanks thanks. Oh yeah we
  • have five minutes, thanks Jim.
  • We've got Greg Trimble here, a popular LDS
  • blogger who wrote a really cool book Dads Who
  • Stay and Fight. And we're going to talk about atheism.
  • Oh. We're so afraid. I'm actually terrified.
  • Because the atheists, they're like
  • an army on YouTube they're powerful.
  • Have you seen like the Amazing Atheist
  • with the beard, TJ? He's like... I don't know
  • TJ. I don't know but he's like
  • this is a popular account. He's a count?
  • Like he's like a rich man?
  • Count TJ the Atheist? He's a count like a vampire
  • but he's an atheist. Instead of a coffin he just lays
  • in a pile of Richard Dawkins books.
  • Atheists are human beings, they're rational, they're smart, they have morals
  • they're people. They're still loved by God even if they don't believe in God.
  • So I think we need to have a conversation about
  • misconceptions of atheism.
  • So I tweeted "What do you think are mistakes Christians make about atheists or
  • atheism in a discussion about atheism. And @MLAFletch said, "Mixing up
  • the differences between being agnostic and being atheist as well as acting
  • like we are better than those who don't believe." What would you say is the
  • difference between atheist and an agnostic? An atheist doesn't believe in
  • an intelligent designer and agnostics are just, I don't know, I'm waiting to
  • figure out. If there's, if there's a God then I'll meet him
  • and I'll say hi and good but... I really think most Millennials are
  • leaning for that area. There's no doubt. In fact there's a Pew Research
  • poll that says that it's the fastest-growing religion among
  • Millennials is agnosticism. If I weren't a Mormon, I'd probably be an agnostic.
  • Oh, I'd be a Catholic. Or maybe a Presbyterian and sing in a gospel choir
  • cuz that's fun. So I think there's a big battle especially online
  • atheists, agnostics against Christianity and they say, "Why are you binding yourself
  • to a certain doctrine? I feel like I can be happy
  • if I can choose anything I want. There's too many rules. My argument would be that you're not
  • going to find more happiness... like what would I do if I wasn't a member of
  • the church? I wouldn't go out and do a whole bunch of other things that the
  • world says is it going to make you happy. In fact those things you see are
  • actually more binding than keeping the commandments. Keeping
  • the commandments actually makes you free.
  • What are some examples?
  • Take drinking, for instance. If you were to go out and become an alcoholic
  • you have now been put into submission, you've become a slave to a debilitating
  • a debilitating drug and to remain, to keep that commandment, people are like
  • Oh you're Mormon, keeping the Word of Wisdom. Well, it's actually a
  • method that keeps us free from stain and bondage to those things.
  • I'm going to talk about the two-world view and how Christians look
  • toward the next life like we're following Jesus Christ, we're
  • living by these set of Commandments because we want our reward or either
  • just lack of punish. Many people would say, "You guys are probably lost in your
  • thoughts or lost in this hope for the future because it's not based in fact. If
  • there is no future and there is no God and we are just you know particles
  • we're just fertilizer. If Ian had a million
  • dollars right? Maybe just say Rob. And I was gonna rob him...
  • Yeah, you're gonna rob him. What is keeping you from robbing Rob?
  • What is keeping me... if there's no God... if you're not bound by anything.
  • Then I don't know, I'm not sure. I mean except my conscience and my
  • emotions. You have no conscience, you're a fertilizer.
  • you're a prokaryotic cell that turned into a
  • self-replicating cell in evolution over many years and you're just two
  • fertilizers. But you've evolved into higher intelligence
  • what keeps you from feeling bad about taking all his money?
  • And there is no point for existence, we're just here, why wouldn't I? I don't know...
  • Well I would say it's our conscience and our emotions. That's what keeps
  • someone as just two pieces of fertilizer. Is there conscience? Like how does fertilizer
  • get a conscience? Or cells? Oooo I see what you're getting to here!
  • I like his face.
  • Play devil's advocate. If you are atheist, an agnostic would say, "Well I
  • don't know, I mean there could be a God and maybe I feel this way because there
  • is a God but I don't know for sure and so I'm not gonna
  • commit myself to either way I'm just going to try to be a good person I know
  • lots of good agnostics I know lots of good atheists but philosophically what would
  • keep you from taking all his money? You would say the law. Right? You would say
  • the cops will come and arrest you. So is there anything else? Why do people feel bad for
  • for things you know? Because it was culturally planted by religion. Was it?
  • It could have been. Or there's a divine sense in each of us that radiates
  • with morality, that knows there are Commandments and laws that are
  • transcendent of our time. I think we have to set the groundwork for what we're
  • willing to accept as evidence or proof right? So that's always what's teetering
  • because let's say, okay if we're going to say we accept proof for historical
  • events, we know certain battles happened and that these number of people died from
  • the records and testimonials from diary entries from from a number of things
  • from writings from the people at the time period right? That's how we can
  • determine many historical events but when you put in a divine force into an
  • event like the first vision people are like that's fake. I was gonna get there...
  • I know but you were talking for awhile.
  • So we can use that same
  • groundwork for evidence and say that well we have multiple witnesses that
  • Jesus Christ appeared in the Kirtland Temple to the Saints. Joseph and Sidney Rigdon
  • both testified and saw the Savior appeared to them. We have the
  • three witnesses of the Book of Mormon. We have a lot of these divine
  • miracles. That's the same measure of proof we have
  • in historical accounts so why is it completely discredited, why is
  • that kind of proof not allowed in the discussion about theology? So a
  • modern-day Joseph Smith 1820 having the first vision in springtime, seeing God
  • the Father and Jesus Christ, he was the only one there. How are we
  • supposed to believe that if he's just making this up? Well there's more
  • miracles besides the first vision. I know but it's something that we based
  • the restoration on, right? It's true and so I think what's important is lots of
  • atheists they're not nonsensical or they're irrational and they say things
  • like well how could you believe this if it's based on one man? Yes we believe
  • that Joseph Smith was the prophet of the restoration but that's the thing
  • is you take evidence and you take the scientific method of discerning logic
  • and discerning truth but then there's also a spiritual engagement that you
  • have to have with God when talking about theology. It's about God so why
  • don't we allow him in the conversation? It's silly when we say yeah that's not
  • possible because it's God. There is an interview with Richard Dawkins and he is
  • one of the most respected atheists in the world and one of the world's most
  • hated eyebrow holders. Eyebrows are everywhere! Come on. He had an
  • interview with Ben Stein and I mean this is coming out of his mouth. Ben Stein
  • asked him, he says, "Hey, what are the chances that there could be an
  • intelligent designer?" He says, "There's no chance, maybe 99% No. Maybe 1%."
  • He says, "Maybe 98% or maybe 49%, why is it 1%?"
  • One of the most interesting things I've seen is it Dawkins he goes and he says
  • Well there is this compelling and intriguing possibility that there was a
  • higher, more intelligent being or beings somewhere in this universe that came
  • down to earth and seeded life on this earth and then Stein kind of looks at me
  • says but you can't call it God, right? So you can call them aliens, you can call
  • them intelligence riding on the backs of crystals and hitting a primordial
  • swamp and get struck by lightning and eukaryotic cells turn into
  • replicating cells and life begins, we have all of these things happening that are
  • so much more unbelievable than thinking that there's an intelligent designer.
  • And it was interesting the word that Dawkins used when he described it,
  • he said that there would be some sort of signature in life that that began here
  • and so you have you have the world's most well known atheists or
  • probably one of the most well known atheistic books against God admitting
  • that there could be a possibility of a higher intelligence seeding life and
  • beginning life here on this earth as some sort of experiment or project or
  • whatever so there's no there's no evidence, you can't prove that God
  • doesn't exist. I mean they'll come right back at you
  • that you can't prove that he does exist. Exactly but you would say, "Does
  • your logical mind look at everything that we have our eyes, our bodies, even in
  • the cells the factories within our bodies, do you look at that and do you
  • say to yourself, "Yeah, that looks like something that could be ten to the fifty
  • second chance of randomly assembling itself out of nothing. And that's what I was trying
  • to say earlier. Chaotic material is much more unbelievable to believe that I'm
  • sort of to the fifty second power that we've been created than it is
  • to believe that there is some sort of superior being designing all this. If you
  • take an atheist and you say, "Well the Holy Ghost..." They're going to
  • laugh at you and say, "The Holy Ghost, what? Are you kidding me, this invisible
  • communication? Well, if you ever watched Ghost Watchers, you will know that
  • spiritual matter is a thing. No, seriously though back in the days they used to
  • call it Ether and now it's kinda this essence
  • throughout everything and now they call it dark matter. They have different-
  • scientists agree that there's some sort of essence that goes in all things and
  • through all things and round about all things, we would use the scriptures.
  • But this essence is actually used to communicate and we actually use it every
  • single day. If I have my phone I'm sending invisible messages across the
  • world up into the air to a server that records every single impression that
  • comes from this phone and it's recorded somewhere. I mean this is there's a
  • science behind even the way that we feel the Holy Ghost and
  • so they say religion and science, it has to be separate. Religion and science
  • actually go together God is the great scientist. At the end of the day, I don't
  • like saying that atheists are bad people. They're not. They're people.
  • And I think at the end of the day we need to understand that conversations
  • about atheism and theology need to happen. And they don't have to be
  • vitriolic, they can be they can be scholarly and kind and rational we don't
  • have to be children okay. Someone's going to write at the end be like well you
  • guys did that for in the whole show yeah but our show
  • it's our show yeah. When you want it, you create a YouTube show.
  • We're such jerks!
  • Honestly, Atheists we'd like to hear what you think because... I don't know
  • for some reason I have an issue saying atheists. No, it's fine.
  • Thanks for watching today we really want you to check out Greg's books, go check out his
  • blog and subscribe to the show. We're on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook all over the
  • place we're even in dark matter and ether matter spiritual matter we're all
  • over. God is all over. Who's all over? That sounds like Twister. You know references that
  • nobody knows. You never played Twister? Oh no, that game is weird.

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Description

Ian and Kwaku talk with famous LDS blogger Greg Trimble about atheism. Greg Trimble writes for the page www.gregtrimble.com.

Greg says that there is evidence of atheism being the fastest growing religion.

Ian, Kwaku and Greg discuss that the lack of rules in atheism actually makes us less free. Greg argues that the commandments in Mormonism and Christianity make us more free. Through living the commandments, we refrain from hurting others, from hurting ourselves, and from living in ways that take away our agency.

What do you think? Comment below!

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